[Gahn]

I've noticed in a lot of games that Garry does well, too well. I know that he is a tank, literally, but he excels far too much at that role and he has an ulti that can single handedly level and entire outpost (provided that he has the mana).


Here a few ideas I came up with for Garry:

reduce attack range to 600, increase attack speed to compensate. He attacks horrendously slow and is not much of a threat when he is out of mana. I think it's unfair for the tankiest hero in the game to also be the one with the most range.

reduce the damage of Shock Cannon, thought not by too much. I know this one sounds a little vague, but thats because I don't remember the exact numbers for the skill. Hitting an enemy with both the blast and the shockwave is surprisingly easy (if you know what you're doing), and the skill deals a lot of damage. Increasing the cast time or putting in a delay might make the skill too hard to use and/or not worth using.

Reduce the AoE of Collapse to 400, and increase the cast time of each successive Collapse by 1 second. Collapse is, umm..., strong? And unless the enemy team can anticipate when Garry might Backdoor, he can, and will, level their outpost. Another Idea would be to make it have a shorter cast time, deal less damage but have the damage dealt and the cast time increase with each successive cast, so that it has more uses then just for base killing.

Reduce Diversion Delay to 1.75/2.5/3.25/4 seconds and place a cap on how much damage can be diverted.(Maybe 80/120/160/200 + Str x 1.5/2/2.5/3) The Active Component could also be given a mana cost, maybe 0.4 mana per dmg point removed? Diversion pretty much means that the only way to stop Collapse is through a disable (which is one of the reasons it works so great with him) but it also allows him to gain 5 seconds of near invulnerability. I think a Cap along with a mana cost for the active would help increase the skill a player needs to play Garry well.

I might be overreacting a little, I mean I did have mid all to myself for the first 10-15 min of the game, without even an enemy hero to compete with for coins, but I do think that Garry needs a nerf of sorts.

This post has been edited by Gahn: 09 March 2010 - 10:57 PM

[Softmints]

I was just going to slow him by 20 movement speed. Reducing Diversion delay/nerfing Collapse, also possible.

[Grumbletok]

I do agree with Gahn on this, that Tank is way to much Tank
The biggest problem i see is diversion, since it makes his survival ridiculously easy,
and makes some some abilities just seem like pokes from a baby on him :/
I think the best solution of that one would be to give it a cap, not to low of course,
but 100% is silly...

As for Shock Cannon, i think it works rather well, even thou i preferred the old,
long range one, this one works rather fine.

As for Collapse, it's like Gahn says, it got one use, base killing, and, well... At that it's
godly. It's so godly that, if Legion got a Garry that knows how to use collapse, the
elven bases could almost be removed from the start, since he'll beat them up
even if he charges into them alone...

And, don't take me wrong, i, like most people i think, like Garry and thinks he's a really
cool hero and concept, only problem is the balance^^'

[Softmints]

So what I did was lowered movement speed by 20, increased Diversion's cooldown by 20, and removed the knockback from Collapse. We'll see how this does in testing; I'm still open to other options, just trying this first.

[XgE.Obseedian]

Garry is all about knowing how to use him. The first time you pick him up, you'll likely think he sucks, as most new players do. That being said, when you do know how to use him, as pointed out, he is very, very powerful.

Um, Soft? Not to burst your bubble, but the problem with collapse isn't its knockback. The problem is that Garry can run right into the middle of a base, activate collapse, and level the base. The heroes can't do anything to stop it because they are too scared of Garry to go near him. How does removing knockback solve this problem? I would just suggest reducing the damage that collapse deals to buildings or making it so that the buildings will stun Garry if he tries to backdoor, thus disabling collapse.

I wouldn't reduce the AoE on collapse though, because then it would be impossible to hit anyone with it, thus making it a useless skill.

If only Psychic and Garry could team up. Collapse + Telekinesis would be win.

[Dracula]

Meh. I never found Collapse to be Garry's rigged aspect. Sure, it's uber, but one knockback ruins it instantly - and we all know the Elves have far more than they'd ever need. Not to mention that even if he does damage the buildings, they'll just regenerate as long as he doesn't actually finish them.
Personally, I always found his rigged aspect to be Barrage and its ridiculous damage against one target. Granted, now that effectiveness vs one target has been nerfed, this isn't as much of a problem anymore.

[Gahn]

You could make Collapse's Damage be reduced by 0.5 - 1% for each % hp Garry is missing Diversion would still help a lot but it would also encourage enemies to focus him.